b5media

October 4th,2005

Press Interview: Nick Douglas

By Jeremy Wright

Having done more than a dozen interviews with journalists about b5media in the last week, I decided it was time to turn the tables and interview a journalist on the subject of blog networks.

Nick Douglas writes daily for Blogebrity on the subject of blog networks, so I thought he’d be a great candidate. The interview is rather long, jumps around a little bit, but it was a lot of fun. Thanks Nick!

Click through for the full interview.

Here is the interview:

Jeremy Wright: Nick, welcome to b5media’s first ever journalist interview! Say hi to all the lovely people.

Nick Douglas: I’m glad to be here. Do I get to hold a branded coffee mug? Wait, I have one here. Okay, holding my Tonight Show mug.

Jeremy: Sure. You just can’t tell anyone what the brand… Nevermind.

So, for everyone who isn’t a daily reader of Blogebrity, who is Nick Douglas?

Nick: I blogged personally for a couple years, got interested in the folks doing it better than I ever could, and this summer got a chance to start writing about these people.

Now, at Blogebrity, I gossip about the top bloggers, blogging networks, and some theories behind the whole blossoming field.

Jeremy: Sounds like … fun… in a completely odd kind of way.

Nick: It’s three degrees from reality.

Jeremy: Kind of like doing a blog about french celebrities. Not that I have anything against french celebrities…

Nick: Right, “I’m not a real celebrity, but I’m big in Japan.” Or on Boing Boing.

Jeremy: Haha, yeah. You’ve been on a real blogging network kick over the last few weeks. What got you turned on to them?

Nick: My favorite blogs, other than the inimitable Boing Boing, are on the Gawker network. So over the summer, I noticed the synergy and the common tone between different members — especially Gawker and Defamer, which have to take care not to tread on one another’s toes.

Then I started examining Weblogs, Inc., which is about 5 times as large, with 4-5 times the staff.

From there, I started checking out 9rules…can’t recall when I bumped into it. I was immediately shocked by its beauty.

Jeremy: Yeah, that’s definitely the first thing most people notice about 9rules. Kinda like a french celebrity.

Nick: I had my design kick back in high school, before I realized I have no aesthetic creativity, so I don’t actually read about design… in fact, I haven’t found a 9rules blog to read for pleasure until last week’s addition of a blog marketing blog.

And that’s possibly the ugliest 9rules member.

Jeremy: Which blog is that, for the readers of this interview?

Nick: http://rwebsdesigns.com/blog/ - “Blog Marketing, Promotion for Newbies.”

Jeremy: Ah, yes. I’ve read it several times, because the author’s mildly obsessed with blog networks as well.

Nick: Right. And he’s enthusiastic, very eager, occasionally lets loose with the !s.

Jeremy: Not obsessed in a bad way, he just writes about blog networks more than anyone but you.

Nick: Or, possibly, but me and this new “blog network watcher” — let me find that URL…

Jeremy: Yeah, I think it’s www.blognetworkwatch.com… Yeah.

Nick: Yep, they might force me to tone down my coverage — because they’re doing rather well so far.

Jeremy: Now that would be a shame! How do you classify the different blog networks in your mind?

Nick: Oh man. Well, Gawker and WIN seem more similar than before — because before, we took for granted that a network needed a strict business plan and a sizeable launch. Nick Denton, owner of GM, and Jason Calacanis, owner of WIN, have similar stories.

Jeremy: True.

Nick: Both launched their networks with their own money, earned from dot-com boom companies.

Both had talked up Internet business during the boom, gotten chastised during the crash,
and are now laughing their asses off. Cause no matter what Denton says, he knows there’s oodles of cash in this business.

He may only launch 14 blogs, but he sees Calacanis’ 80-something blogs and recognizes the viability of that business.

Now we have the class of…”geek blog” is too simplistic — I’m searching for a term, and when I find it, I will overuse it on Blogebrity. But this first includes 9rules, then Federated Media Publishing, which for the longest time basically meant Boing Boing.

Jeremy: Are these what many refer to as the “club networks”?

Nick: Right, that’s a good name for them. They’re less top-down. 9rules, for example, doesn’t launch blogs nearly as often as they bring them under the umbrella. So the blogs clearly belong to the writers.

Jeremy: True.

Nick: With Fine Fools, Paul Scrivens is actually moving toward the older top-down model. The downside is, of course, that the writer must sacrifice some control to the people behind her. The upside is that Paul, this time, can make some money. And ideally, he can form a consistent brand.

Jeremy: So you’d class the blog networks as “the big boys, very top down” and the “club networks”. Are the newer networks that have come into being recently challenging those classes, redefining them or are they simply a new class of network?

Nick: Well, I’m still figuring out b5. I haven’t had time to read many of your member blogs.

How long has b5media been publishing?

Jeremy: Tomorrow will be our second week since launch, but many of the blogs were in soft launch for 1-2 weeks before that.

And we have a number of blogs we’re bringing in over the next few weeks which are months or years old.

Nick: Excellent, so you’re rebranding some older content?

Jeremy: Rebranding older blogs, yeah.

Consolidating, so to speak.

Nick: I can’t recall a mix of new and pre-existing blogs, really — discounting the few blogs that 9rules launched.

Jeremy: In many ways it’s bringing together many of the current resources of Darren, Duncan and myself (though not all), and then launching new blogs alongside those.

Nick: Is this Duncan of Webpire?

(Weblogs Empire? What’s the name…)

Jeremy: Yeah, Weblog Empire and Blog Herald.

Nick: Bright guy.

Jeremy: So’s Darren. And not just because he’s follicly challenged.

Nick: Ha! So are you incorporating W.E.?

Jeremy: You’ll have to get Duncan to comment on the future of W.E. :)

Jeremy: Getting back to the question, how do you feel the newer networks (feel free to ignore b5 in this comment, since we’re the ones doing the interviewing) fit into the blog network ecosystem?

Nick: Oh, yes. So far, Jason Calacanis is paying very little attention to you, right? Is he e-mailing anyone? Cause all I’ve seen is one comment in that incredible thread.

Jeremy: A few comments here or there, but largely he sees us as we are: a small outfit that’s growing, but isn’t really a threat to his business model. And that’s likely fair.

I gave him, Denton and Paul a heads up a few days before we launched, and Jason’s reaction was “cool, good luck!” (in a friendly kind of way).

Nick: Excellent.

Jeremy: Yeah, they’re all great guys. What did you think of the creation, and then collapse, of Webby Media?

Nick: Aha, yes, just this morning Kevin Myrick told me about this before I hit WM’s feed. What a burnout. We don’t even have any carnage to analyze. I mean, the corporate blog came out, and 9 days later, everything’s gone. Not a single blog launched.

Jeremy: Yeah, it’s not like there were dozens of blogs laid to waste.

Nick: This should teach us all something: 1. Get a cooler name than “Webby Media.”

2. Publish something off the bat. - WM was killed with public talk. If all this discussion were private, Omar could easily switch to a sustainable model and launch a healthy network.

Jeremy: Very true. But how do you balance the need to create buzz for the network with the need to actually make the network, well, work?

Nick: Buzz doesn’t need to be out in the open.

I wasn’t online enough a few years ago to catch Gawker Media’s launch, but I’m pretty sure they had a blog before they had a dozen posts talking about their vision.

Omar kept telling us how much he’d focus on content. Well, I didn’t see any. We got no content.

Jeremy: Hmmm, true. Don’t speak up unless you have something worth showing off?

Nick: When WIN launched Slashfood, they had about 200 posts up on *day one*.

Right. It’s not a shameful impulse — we all like to talk up our upcoming projects. But it’s bad business.

Jeremy: So, lessons: Get a great name. Put our content where your mouth is. Build buzz in a healthy way. Any other tips for aspiring network owners?

Nick: Yes: Be sexy. If there’s one gaping fault in Fine Fools, it’s the plain layout.

Jeremy: But, you’d expect that to change with Paul behind them.

Nick: Incidentally, this is one of my excuses for Blogebrity’s low readership.

Jeremy: So, in light of your thoughts on blog networks successes and failures, how would you rate Instablogs?

Nick: Instablogs? I’ll wait until they launch tomorrow. But for one, this is out of India. I haven’t talked to the owners yet, maybe you know: Are they targeting an audience in India? Because that wouldn’t surprise me.

Jeremy: Seems that theyr’e targetting the world. Based on their list of blogs they’ll launch with.

Nick: Good call. This could be a step toward further exportation of modern Indian culture.

Jeremy: Which, it seems, some of their indian fan base is less than impressed with. Are they making many of the same mistakes as Webby Media?

Nick: I don’t know; I don’t think they’ve published their business plan. But I’m hoping and assuming that it’s something sustainable.

Jeremy: Me too. It would be sad to see a network of 50 blogs crash and burn.

Nick: It’s fascinating to see the awkward Web 1.0 approach of their corporate blog. I can get RSS for the comments but not the posts. I can’t even find permalinks.

Jeremy: There aren’t any. And comments are just one big thread.

Nick: They’re sticking up pretty good hand-drawn cartoons. So they have a one-dimensional forum, a static-looking but updated front page, and cartoons. It’s, well, quirky.

Jeremy: Something to watch. Im’ really curious to see what actually launches tomorrow.

Nick: My cynical side expects some camp value. But they mentioned an India blog — how cool is that?

Jeremy: Yeah, I just saw that. That’s very cool.

Nick: I’m looking forward to that.

Jeremy: Next on their list should be a croatia blog.

Nick: Ha, assuming they can send a correspondent.

Jeremy: Sorry, inside joke. About 10% of our traffic comes from readers in croatia, according to our stats.

Yeah, for Unplugged Living, the list goes like this…

UNITED STATES (US)
CANADA (CA)
CROATIA (HR)
CHINA (CN)
FRANCE (FR)
UNITED KINGDOM (UK)
KOREA, REPUBLIC OF (KR)

Nick: Weird.

Jeremy: I have no idea why, but we think it’s hilarious. Slovenia, Taiwan and Barbados are also well represented.

Nick: That’s grand! Maybe you can put out a query post and get some comments. Instablogs, by the way, is also characterized by its seemingly unmarketable topics. This network is not carefully choosen topics for high ad rates.

Jeremy: Well, today’s posts are already written (the rest are mainly asking for specific bloggers in topics for our next round of blogs).

I wasn’t going to comment on that. However, the owners of the network have said, point blank, that they aren’t going after blogs based on marketability. They’ve also said that’s one of the reasons they aren’t paying their bloggers a percentage of revenue: because the less profitable blogs would make less money.

Which is certainly an interesting strategy.

Nick: Right, and I’ve heard Calacanis mention that — on a flatter rate, you can help less profitable blogs pick up, and you can subsidize them with the rich blogs.

Jeremy: As a larger network, I’m sure it’s essential that you subsidize blogs to a certain extent.

From a reader perspective, what are some of your favourite network blogs?

Nick: Like, the blogs I read for pleasure?

Jeremy: Yeah.

Nick: My favorite is Boing Boing. I cannot overstress how much Boing Boing beats every other blog.

They just need to watch out for the creeping agenda posts. But each day, I get more “oh sweet” reactions from BB than any other blog. I tend to send favorite posts from blogs to my IM buddies. But now they all read Boing Boing too.

Second is Gawker.

It’s witty, and even though I don’t particularly care about media and celebrities, it gets me interested.

Jeremy: Cool.

Nick: I just started reading Wonkette, and I prefer Cox’s humor to that of Coen and Oxfeld at Gawker.

But it looks like Cox sticks closer to news updates, so I don’t always get to see that humor.

And I love story blogs.

Jeremy: Do you have any advice for bloggers who are looking at networks as a way to increase their visibility and make some money?

Nick: Waiter Rant, for example: http://waiterrant.com

(But he’s not on a network.) Hmm, yeah. Examine your contract. If you launch a network, get a good team on your side. And please, please, PLEASE launch a network that appeals to more than alpha geeks.

Alpha geeks rock, but there’s already a healthy conversation there, and we need flashier blogs to attract new readers.

Jeremy: Agreed.

Well, Nick, thanks for your time!

Nick: It was a pleasure. I’ll take this mug home — since it’s mine.